Kurt Dirks, the recently appointed dean of the University of Utah’s David Eccles School of Business, is an award-winning professor renowned for his extensive research on trust in leadership. His work has been published in leading scholarly journals, covered by major media outlets such as The New York Times and CNN.com, and cited nearly 27,000 times. In this conversation, Dirks shares his insights into the core elements of effective management and his vision for guiding the business school to nurture the next generation of leaders.
MJ: What initially drew you to studying trust, and how do you see it impacting organizational performance?
KD: [Trust] is fundamental to any relationship, whether personal or work-related. When I started, there really had not been much [research] done on the work front, which stunned me. I started doing that in graduate school, and for the next 20 years, I looked at different angles on that topic. It’s such a key part of not only how we feel but also the productivity of our workplaces.
MJ: What can you tell us about the NCAA study, and what did you find about the relationship between trust and team success?
KD: [We] started gathering data in the preseason of college basketball teams on the extent to which players felt a sense of trust in their coach and their teammates. Of course, there are lots of other factors that could impact performance in the season, so we measured indicators of talent. How well did those teams do in the preseason? How long have the teams been together? [What is] the coach’s winning record? Let’s take all that out and see if the trust still matters. It turned out that had this very powerful effect: 7 percent of the variation in who won during the season — wins and losses — we could predict that.
It’s a very robust effect … and it happens for a few reasons. One of those reasons, I think, was nicely captured by [this study]. One coach said, “You know what trust does? It gets everyone pulling in the same direction and cadence.” Instead of focusing on themselves and worrying about, “What’s in this for me?” it starts to get people thinking, “I’m willing to go toward this broader vision. I’m willing to work a little bit extra for that because I know we’re in it together.”
MJ: How can business leaders measure and enhance trust within their organizations?
KD: We think about building trust at three levels. One is at the individual level — things about me that make you trust me. The second is a relationship, which is a kind of communication that builds rapport with different people, and that’s now at the dyadic, interpersonal level. And then the last is building a set of structures and culture around it. We think about three things that people look for when they trust someone, particularly a leader. To make it easy, we will talk about three C’s. One is competence. The second is character — am I honest? And the last one is caring: “It’s not about me; I’m taking your interest into account.”
Our brains seem to be wired to look at differences between when people violate something because of a lack of competence or a lack of character. Our brains seem to be less forgiving of character flaws than of skill-related errors.
MJ: What role does an open mind play in fostering trust within an organization, and why is it important?
KD: I think the important thing with regard to trust is to actually start with an open mind. … It turns out that, on average, trust tends to pay off. I mean, there are certainly places where you place a big risk, right? But once you start that cycle of trust, we’re more likely to work together, and you’re more likely to reciprocate. If I trust you, you trust me. When you walk into new places, at least start with trust. … Once you go down the cycle of not trusting someone, that relationship is going to fray, and it kind of goes on a downward spiral, interpreting their intent differently, all that kind of stuff. A lot of building trust actually starts with you as much as what that other person does.
MJ: You’ve mentioned innovation and risk-taking. How does trust play into these critical business aspects?
KD: Create a culture where risk-taking is not punished when you screw up — because it will always happen, right? … Employees [should] trust that, if they are doing their best and trying to deliver with good intent, a screw-up will not irreparably end their career.
MJ: During times of organizational change, how can leaders maintain trust within their teams?
KD: Transparency is often a good thing because when there’s a concern about something bad or something negative has happened or just changed, people start to focus inward on it. “What’s this going to mean for me?” Being able to provide information with as much transparency as is reasonable and appropriate is very helpful.
MJ: If trust is breached within an organization, what steps can leaders take to rebuild it?
KD: First, recognize the difference between a perception of a breach that occurred due to a mistake — or a decision that was, in hindsight, a bad decision — as opposed to something with bad intent. This is the difference between character and competence.
Our messages that contain three attributes — three Rs — tend to at least open the door for repair. One is regret. Next, we take responsibility, then reform: “We’re going to get this fixed so it doesn’t happen again.”
When an admission of fault happens, I think it is only problematic when you are admitting … a character flaw. … But when it is seen as an issue of competence … our data were very clear that people are willing to say, “OK, that person owned up to it. They’re not trying to make an excuse, and they are going to fix it.” In almost all cases, that tended to be the thing that the other side saw as most impactful.
The example that stands out to me in terms of leadership is this quote by Dwight Eisenhower. He had two messages written out after D-Day: one if things went well and one if it failed. The one we know — because things went well — was a great message. But he had this other message written out for if things went poorly, and I’ll paraphrase: “We made decisions to attack based on the information available today, but our troops fought with all the bravery and valor. Any failure is mine alone.” I thought that was such a powerful thing to be able to think about. … He could not have had that message written out, or he could have come up with something else to try to save his image as the commander. But it was just that, such a striking example of being ready to take ownership.
MJ: How does the University of Utah’s business education differ from other institutions across the country?
KD: Our focus on immersive learning sets us apart. We offer a unique blend of classroom education and hands-on experience. Students live and breathe entrepreneurship at the Lassonde Institute and engage in real-world projects through our various centers.
MJ: Finally, what is your vision for the College of Business moving forward?
KD: Student success is our North Star. [It’s the] notion of helping everyone, no matter where you come from — rural Utah, urban Utah or even out of the state. How can we be a place where students come knowing that they can find what they care about — their purpose — and then seek and find that peak? We measure that through graduation rate, career outcomes, the confidence that they leave with, and being able to have an impact.
